We're All Mad Here - You Might Have to Go to War, Use a Gun, Shoot a Nun

11:10 am June 30th, 2005

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			We're All Mad Here - You Might Have to Go to War, Use a Gun, Shoot a Nun You can tell I'm mad because I have straw in my hair.

baronmind


	You Might Have to Go to War, Use a Gun, Shoot a Nun
	After Bush's speech on Iraq the other night, I overheard one girl online say: "Well, I always supported the war, but my heart just about stopped when I heard my boyfriend was being deployed to Iraq. Now I'm really not sure." This sort of attitude bugs me; it indicates that the speaker chooses, as much as possible, to ignore the surrounding world and only focus on the things that it can't be denied have a direct impact. Clearly, the way to shake people out of this attitude is to make them realize that quite a lot has a bearing on their lives, more than they're currently admitting. I was thinking about how best to do this, and I've come up with an interesting, although not novel, answer: institute mandatory military service in America. I've argued against this in the past, because I'm not sure it's a great thing for the military. However, I think it would be an excellent way to make people wake up and realize that global politics do affect their everyday lives. When everyone knows someone who's got the potential to be sent to a war zone, it's a lot harder to shrug off headlines about how another roadside bomb killed another few Marines. Maybe people would pay more attention to the details about their commander-in-chief if they were more personally involved. "Mandatory" needs to be defined, of course. There are always exceptions, for mental or physical disabilities and the like. Higher education should allow people to delay their service, but not avoid it entirely. However, "silver spoon stuck in mouth" should not be a valid medical excuse to avoid service. There'll always be some who manage to buy their way out, to pull strings and get cushy assignments, but if structured properly it should be possible to minimize that sort of thing. It's possible that people will simply put in their years and, upon leaving the service, fall back into the current thinking of "If I don't look at the problem, it can't see me either." However, I think there's a good chance that having spent a couple of years knowing that politicians' bickering and backdoor deals affect their lives very directly, they'll be more mindful of the more indirect effects in the rest of their lives. As with so many good ideas, this law would never pass because people would rise up against it. "How dare you conscript my son, my daughter! They're special! Let someone else fight the wars; I only elected you, I shouldn't have to worry about the consequences of your mistakes!" Maybe someone can sneak it in as a rider on a bill somewhere. Wouldn't that be a fun headline the next morning? Oh, fine; everyone else already has one. Tags: brilliant ideas, bush, memes, musings, politics Mood of the Moment: contemplative Auditory Hallucination: Télépopmusik -- Breathe

43 comments or Leave a comment


	Comments

	From: divinerose	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:16 pm (UTC)		(Link)

However, "silver spoon stuck in mouth" should not be a valid medical excuse to avoid service.

I completely agree.

Yay for asthma that keeps me out of the armed services!

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:29 pm (UTC)		(Link)

You seem to have a real love/hate relationship with your asthma. I swear you cheer and despise it alternately, literally. I don't think I've heard you express the same opinion about it two conversations in a row.

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	From: divinerose	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:50 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Well it is a love/hate. I love the fact that it got the recruiters away from me in high school with one little word...asthma. I hate it because I have to plan ahead any big physical activity. Once I do my inhalor, about 10 minutes later I can REALLY tell a difference in the capacity of my lungs. I hate the fact that I got it from my parents smoking. It is annoying more then anything. It does come in handy...like with recruiters...

OH yea, first comment AGAIN baby! I ROCK!

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 04:14 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I don't understand how anybody who works in the cigarette industry can sleep at night, knowing all the damage they're doing. It's truly amazing that anyone could have so little concern for their fellow humans.

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	From: eirle	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:17 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Awww, when the header to this post rhymed, I was hoping there was going to be some funny, rhyming moment in the speech that I missed.

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:22 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Sorry, that's actually a quote from a Denis Leary song -- "Life's Gonna Suck." It's funnier than Bush's speech, though, and better written. In fact, all around, it's a better use of your time to listen to that song.

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	From: sleepinbeauty	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:19 pm (UTC)		(Link)

As I understood it, the Universal Service Act (the proposed and more-or-less pigeonholed legislation) was designed to draft from the lower age brackets with the idea that you could get your military service over with before the rest of your life (college/family/career) really began. That philosophy actually makes sense to me, but I assume people are against it because it drafts the "babies." I have to wonder why it's a good idea to allow "higher education" (i.e college) to allow for deference of military service for more than one or two semesters if "having a new baby" or something else doesn't also give the same sort of deference.

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:28 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I think impending parenthood would also be a reason to defer the service for a bit. This is just a casual idea; I haven't worked out all of the intricacies of the plan. I don't think people should have their lives disrupted any more than necessary, but I don't think they should be able to weasel out of it entirely, either.

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	From: sleepinbeauty	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:31 pm (UTC)		(Link)

An acceptable plan.

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	From: prolixfootle	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:40 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Imagine the population boom... Social Security would be saved!

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:55 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Y'know, I thought about that as I was writing that comment. This ties in with my other plan of making people pass a test to become parents. Sadly, that one requires a reversible sterility procedure to be truly effective, so it can't really be put into practice yet.

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	From: chubbyninja	Date: July 1st, 2005 12:52 pm (UTC)		(Link)

rather than dealing with a reversible sterility process, we could instead take away the children of those who fail and the babies will then go on to be used for stem cell research... that way, we can offend the most groups possible in one shot.

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	From: luguvalium	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:39 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I always thought universal service was a good idea, so long as there is a non-military option. There are plenty of things in the country that need to be done.

As for getting more people to serve in the military, without resorting to a draft, I hear Operation Yellow Elephant is underway.

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	From: classytart	Date: June 30th, 2005 04:21 pm (UTC)		(Link)

There are places that have those systems. I want to say Germany but can't be bothered to look it up. I have definitely worked with people who have done national service, but can't remember who, so the countries are difficult to work out.

Anyway, yes. There are countries where people in the 18-25 age range have to do a year or two of military service, or voluntary community-based work, or other things to generally make the world a better place. The length of service depended on the chosen option (so maybe a year in the military, or two years helping old people, or whatever). I wouldn't mind that, so long as there were options. I especially wouldn't have minded that if I then got a grant for university, rather than a loan and fees to pay (paying for education is new here).

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	From: starburstlvr	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:20 pm (UTC)		(Link)

The thing that upset me was he listed 3 things that once completed would cause us to leave. 2 of which can never be completed. But the way he tried to say it left some audience members with the idea that it would. Also, he fumbled over so many words it was insane.

I dunno about mandatory enlisting. People have to decide for themselves.

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:26 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Personally, I was interested in the fact that he came up with yet another rationale for us to be in Iraq: we're there to flush out the hotbed of terrorism. Of course, earlier in his speech, he said that the terrorists were all coming there because we were there, which makes it sort of a circular argument. They can't both be starting points, unless time travel is involved.

I think people need to be better informed in order to be able to decide for themselves. Mandatory military service would jar many people into realizing that they need to educate themselves.

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	From: divinerose	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:29 pm (UTC)		(Link)

but didnt we already have a discussion on how people would rather just be led around? true, I think this would give them more cause to actually sit up and pay attention and think, but you would still have the large chunk that would just shrug their shoulders and go along with it.

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:31 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Yeah, but this would hopefully reduce the size of that chunk. Like I said before, ideally people would choose not to be led. This might move things in that direction.

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	From: starburstlvr	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:29 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Also, if people actually paid attention to the WORDS he says. And are able to make connections like you and I did.

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:32 pm (UTC)		(Link)

The people who are already paying attention to politicians' words and not just his tone aren't the ones who need to wake up, though.

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	From: andrewwyld	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:33 pm (UTC)		(Link)

It works if you assume the number of terrorists is fixed -- much like "lock them all up and throw away the key" strategies for dealing with certain kinds of crime.

Quick question: Should we lock all rapists up and throw away the key?

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:38 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Absolutely; let's get the Department of Pre-Crime on that one immediately, to make sure we get the future ones.

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	From: andrewwyld	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:43 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Better yet, why not just segregate the men from the women? I bet the buggery stats would go up, but that's nothing you can't solve by feeding them chili peppers every night.

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:59 pm (UTC)		(Link)

That sounds suspiciously like you're threatening marriage! This country was founded on marriage!

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	From: andrewwyld	Date: June 30th, 2005 04:15 pm (UTC)		(Link)

There'd be a third compartment for married couples as well. Either way, I thought the country was founded on exploitation of minorities?

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 04:21 pm (UTC)		(Link)

This country is founded on what I say it was founded on, by God! The founding fathers would have agreed with me fully on this point.

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	From: andrewwyld	Date: July 1st, 2005 02:24 pm (UTC)		(Link)

In that it was founded on what they said it was founded on?

I think America is beginning to get losted.

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	From: chubbyninja	Date: July 1st, 2005 01:03 pm (UTC)		(Link)

well why not just draft criminals to do our fighting for us? you know, give them the option between jail or war, gladiator style.we can do it like so many asian cultures did back in the day, and have them march ahead of us into this hotbed of terrorist activity. that way they can absorb the majority of the bullets and the mines, and if they try to run we can just shoot them in the backs... yup, that is the most reasonable manner of dealing with things, and in no way seems sadistic or cruel... at all.

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	From: miraclaire	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:30 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I hadn't realized that survey had gotten as far as Virginia... (everyone on my friends list in Boston has done it, but you're the first I've seen out of the area).

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:39 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I've been seeing it all over; I finally broke down and clicked their little radio buttons.

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	From: luguvalium	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:41 pm (UTC)		(Link)
	It's everywhere

Most people on my friends list have done it.

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	From: classytart	Date: June 30th, 2005 04:14 pm (UTC)		(Link)

*hand up*

UK here.

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	From: andrewwyld	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:31 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I'm not sure I agree, largely because I would make a terrible soldier for exactly the same reasons that I didn't support a war in Iraq.

Another problem is that it makes sure everyone has a reason to want a larger military budget (better conditions and equipment for a loved-one) and I think this could encourage belligerence. I am definitely against deploying military personnel with insufficient resources, of course; I suspect if military service were compulsory there would be an even bigger logistical problem than there is already.

Finally, I recently saw a program mentioning a study that suggested that, when people were forced to confront their own death, they became more vicious in their attitudes towards perceived enemies. If this study is true (and there were experimental flaws in it, at least as described on the program) then making every US citizen confront their own death regularly by having a loved-one in the armed forces would probably make them favour war more, not less -- to get them before they get us.

Better geography lessons and a better news service are likely to do more good, in my view -- the difference with this girl was probably simply that she got better information about what's actually happening in Iraq, since presumably her boyfriend would need some information in order to serve there.

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	From: baronmind	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:36 pm (UTC)		(Link)

You make some good points. I agree that this plan would cause a lot of logistical problems; as I said, I wasn't presenting it as a finished idea, just a general concept that could have beneficial effects.

Of course, if that study's correct, then my basic premise is flawed. I'd like to hear more about that study -- do you have any more information on it?

The problem with better geography lessons and better news is: how do you make people pay attention? You can provide all the information in the world, but if they don't care, it won't sink in. Still, it'd be a step in the right direction, certainly.

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	From: andrewwyld	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:41 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I don't know much about the study, I'm afraid -- I will try and root something out for you, though.

I've been frankly horrified at some things I have heard about American education spending. I bet kids would pay more attention if the lights would stop flickering and the drains didn't smell so bad.

If you've ever had much conversation with toddlers, you'll be aware that they spend a heck of a lot of the time asking "why". My Godson George actually used it as a general question word before he was old enough to differentiate, but still, toddlers are amazingly curious. Unless you squash that out of people, I think it can continue, ideally forever. The horrible irony, as many of my friends have observed, is that you often see parents telling their children to stop asking questions only to despair of getting them interested in schoolwork a couple of years later.

A particularly vitriolic Guardian article recently observed that a well-educated populace is not in politicians' best interests ... I will try and root that one out, too.

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	From: prolixfootle	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:45 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I say make Tom Cruise spout the information whilst jumping on Oprah's couch. Then people will pay attention.

Man I'm feeling sarcastic today...

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	From: andrewwyld	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:49 pm (UTC)		(Link)

This reminds me of a Bill Bailey concept: charity porn ("horny housewives six: A portion of the proceeds of this film go to fund a women's literacy program in Eritrea"). Why not edu-porn? Alright, hundreds of reasons, but let's not let reason stop a good idea. Besides, if you're studying the medical examination of the leg, it may as well be Carmen Electra's leg.

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	From: prolixfootle	Date: June 30th, 2005 04:05 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I bet if you didn't call it porn, you could really get people behind that idea. Maybe edurotica?

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	From: andrewwyld	Date: June 30th, 2005 04:17 pm (UTC)		(Link)

This sounds almost practicable.

I am very frightened.

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	From: tripleh_rules	Date: June 30th, 2005 03:46 pm (UTC)		(Link)

The problem I have is that I really don't believe in war enless -enless we are attacked first something along the lines of pearl horbor comes to mind. 9/11 we were attacked but not by Iraq.

I am a voilent person by nature I guess I have always enjoyed a good fight, I like boxing, and I am a wrestling fan and will watch Ultimate fighting if I can find it on non-PPV.

I just don't get going out and killing people over political ideals. It is fucking stupid. Threating people with WDM's is a differnt story but really folks, does it matter in the end if some terrorist cell has a WDM do you think for an instant they are going to hestitate to use it becuase we will wage war on whatever country they may or may not be from? NO!

To be honest I have always though that there will never be peace in the middle east. Not until they all destroy each other. Once again our "friend" orgoized religon is the main issue. All becuase the believe differnt stories about who/what they pray to. Makes me sick to be honest.

I think at this point to bring back a draft or manintory service would cause Canada to swell with young American's again. At the ripe old age of 35 I am pretty sure I would not be drafed or made to manitoryly serve in the service but I would not go if I was. Yes freedom has a price that price is blood. But, why should we pay for the war mongering smoke and mirror tatics of a fucking rich monkey that managed to get elected to office for two terms? I mean the people that thought Bush was better than anyone else make me wonder about the future of this country. Personally I feel we would be better off with Wiley E. Cotey as our president and Road Runner as the Vice President. At last they would contain their war to each other.

I quote Black Sabbath's "War Pigs" _" Pollitions only started the war, why don't they go out and fight, they leave that up to the poor. Treating people like pawns in chess, wait till' their judegment day comes"

ON the otherhand, if you signed up for service you have no right to bitch about being deployed. What the hell were you thinking you were doing? If you cashed the check then do your job. Does it suck yes, but you signed up for it. Sorry, I hope you make it out unhamred but really military service is well dangours and you are signing your life away when you join.

No one wants to think about thier brother, sister, cousin, father, mother whatever in a bad place in danger or even living on pins and needls wonder if the call is going to come. I think it sucks to be honest but, they did sign up. This is the downside of being in the military. you have to go out and fight the war -unjust or not.

I support the men and women doing their job -I do not think it is the correct thing to do. I think we do not belong there and we are there for one reason oil. I mean the Bush's have made a killing in oil.

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	From: hello_jaime	Date: June 30th, 2005 05:32 pm (UTC)		(Link)

i like the reasoning behind your idea. my parents support the war, i think, and i always try to tell them that they dont know someone in it so of course they dont care if people die. then there is me who gets upset when ANYONE in Iraq dies because of war or 'insurgents'.

that's another thing. 'insurgents'

Main Entry: in·sur·gent
Function: noun
1 : a person who rises in revolt against civil authority or an established government; especially : one not recognized as a belligerent
2 : one that acts contrary to the established leadership (as of a political party, union, or corporation) or its decisions and policies

george washington was an insurgent, you know.

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From: (Anonymous)	Date: June 30th, 2005 05:51 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Russia has mandatory military service as well as many EU countries and you can see how well that’s working as a deterrent to war. I have a modest proposal. Draft members of congress and their children and make them do their own dirty work.

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	From: ariadnelives	Date: June 30th, 2005 08:32 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Two interesting things:

1. Part of NCLB requires the schools to give the names and addresses of its students to armed forces recruiters.

2. The military is sending letters to students with poor academic perfomance, stating that the students can drop out of school with sophomore credits, and the military will help them get their GEDs, and set them on the path to a successful life. Just drop out, we'll help you, all you need to do is sign.

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